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Starting a Career in the Age of AI | Workplus Ep. 23
•Richard Kirk•Episode 23
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What's the wrong question to ask about AI and jobs? "Are the machines going to take all our jobs?" Gareth Hetherington has a better one.
In this episode of Workplus, host Richard Kirk sits down with Gareth Hetherington MBE, Director of the Ulster University Economic Policy Centre, one of Northern Ireland's leading economists and the person behind some of the most important research on skills, demographics and the future of work in the region.
Gareth worked three jobs the summer after his GCSEs, fell in love with economics at A-level, built a career across the Northern Ireland Audit Office and PwC, and has spent the last decade producing research that has shaped how politicians, employers and universities think about skills and education pathways. His verdict on AI? It won't take your job. But someone using AI will.
Whether you're a parent, teacher, young person choosing your next step, or an employer trying to understand where the workforce is heading, this episode is packed with evidence-based insight delivered in a way that is anything but dry.
In This Episode: — How working seven days a week at sixteen, in a bar, a landscape garden and a mayonnaise factory, shaped Gareth's career thinking — Why economics was the first subject he ever fell in love with — How a temporary civil service job led to a career in economic policy — What the Northern Ireland Skills Barometer actually found, and why it matters for young people today — The demographic challenge nobody is talking about: fewer young people entering the workforce — Why the Saturday job is more important than ever for developing the skills employers actually want — What transversal skills are and why employers now value them as much as technical qualifications — The real question to ask about AI: not whether it will take jobs, but whether it will arrive quickly enough to fill the ones we don't have people for — Why AI won't take your job, but someone using AI will — What work gives Gareth purpose, and why he is not sure he ever wants to retire
YouTube Chapters: 00:00 - Opening quote: AI won't take your job, but someone using AI will 00:23 - Welcome to Workplus 01:02 - Working seven days a week at sixteen 03:33 - What those early jobs actually taught him 05:00 - Falling in love with economics at A-level 06:30 - Choosing a degree and going to Newcastle 08:11 - University and the start of a career path 09:00 - A temporary civil service job that changed everything 11:00 - The Northern Ireland Audit Office and becoming a qualified accountant 13:13 - Developing the audit nose 14:30 - Moving to PwC and economic policy work 16:25 - Joining Ulster University Economic Policy Centre 18:01 - What the research says to young people and parents today 19:00 - The Skills Barometer and the missing middle 22:17 - The demographic challenge: fewer young people in the workforce 25:00 - Transversal skills and what employers really want 27:24 - Why the Saturday job still matters 30:02 - People buy people, not products 30:56 - AI and the wrong question 32:20 - The machines won't come quickly enough 34:01 - AI optimism and productivity 38:39 - What happens when one door closes 41:57 - What is so good about work?
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🎧 Thanks for listening to Workplus, the podcast that brings real jobs into the light. 🔗 Find more stories, tools, and guides to help young people and returners explore meaningful careers at workplus.app 📩 Know someone who would find this helpful? Share it with a parent, teacher, or future changemaker. 🎙 Follow so you never miss a story.
🎧 Thanks for listening to Workplus, the podcast that brings real jobs into the light.
🔗 Find more stories, tools, and guides to help young people and returners explore meaningful careers at workplus.app
📩 Know someone who would find this helpful? Share it with a parent, teacher, or future changemaker.
🎙Follow so you never miss a story.
Speaker 1:
Most people ask the question, all our jobs? And my response is, that's the The question is, are the enough to do the jobs that we That's not to say that AI won't I do think it'll have quite a And we need to learn how to use AI won't take your job, but
Speaker 2:
Welcome to work. Plus, the podcast that shines a work across Northern Ireland. I'm your host, Richard Kirk, I've spent years working with employers, schools, colleges and universities, helping young people and career changers to make better informed career decisions. Each week I sit down with real people doing real jobs to explore how they got there, what they've learned, and why their work matters. If you're a parent, teacher, what good work looks like today, Let's dive in. Gareth, so delighted that you've You're very welcome.
Speaker 1:
Thank you. You're welcome.
Speaker 2:
Thank you. We're going to start way back. So we're going to think a little bit about when you were at school. So what a work experience or a What were the types of things
Speaker 1:
Yeah, that wasn't yesterday. Um, so straight after I finished took, I took three jobs. I worked, uh, in the evening in called the Clandeboye Lodge.
Speaker 2:
Yeah. That's a memory.
Speaker 1:
So yeah, so I worked there in uh, two day jobs. I did three days a week in each, uh, three days, uh, working for a landscape gardener, which was good in the summer and, uh, three days in a mayonnaise factory. And, um, and I also cut a lot of That was on a Sunday, so I was Uh, when I was sixteen years It was a good learning experience in terms of this is what the world of work looks like. Um, but it also taught me that, education for longer. This is fine for, for, uh, you to stay and enjoy education a So I refocused my attention and efforts on, on an academic pathway.
Speaker 2:
But that's an uncommon level of had at that stage. Like how was it something that your friends all working in Where did that come from?
Speaker 1:
Yeah, well, I guess I was, I was So the, the bar job, uh, I think my age did back in, in the sort actually late eighties. Who am I kidding? And, uh, so, so I applied for a uh, as a landscape, the friend from school was working And he said, do you have anyone So he gave me a call and I said, And the man as man as I referred neighbor and he was looking for the production line. It kind of all came together And I did enjoy it. I mean, all of those experiences uh, in their own way, they were,
Speaker 2:
Yeah. What made them enjoyable? What some aspects of them and you were there?
Speaker 1:
Well, I think, and I suppose is you're working you and it's You know, if it was fun, they But what you learn very quickly quickly, is to try to find what different elements of the job. And so the landscape gardening other guys similar age, sort of And that was just good fun with You were outside. It was the summer. Um, working in a bar is, is good life around that. So, so that was interesting. And then the, the mayonnaise mayonnaise factory taught me was in how businesses work. Because although this was a, a profitable and very successful. And, and I was it made me think this business more successful in other business. So it kind of picked a curiosity makes them successful.
Speaker 2:
Okay. Well, you mentioned about education for a bit longer. So what were some of the while you were at school?
Speaker 1:
And I think quite early in, uh, about being an accountant. So my uncle was an accountant the view that I was, I was going And so that was that was fine. And then for my A-levels, I I did an economics A-level. And I for the first time in my with a subject. Um, and it just kind of this is, This makes sense. And yeah, it was just the in love with. For others, it's Physics or language or whatever. For me, it was economics. And so I think that then my degree choice decision was I think, and that was reaffirmed what makes business work. So I wanted to study accounting. Um, but I also loved economics. So I ended up choosing an economics and accounting degree in. I went across the water, I went And so that was what kind of informed that education pathway for me.
Speaker 2:
Yeah. Yeah. Did you have a sense you know, encouraging you in just like, I just love this I just want to do it again, do Or were there other voices in the mix around that you were listening to?
Speaker 1:
In terms of my subject choices that was very much self-motivated. My friends were. They all had had their own Very few of them had any interest whatsoever in economics, so some of them building, surveying. There was another guy who became Quantity surveyors, uh, people who wanted to go into it and communication. So it was varied. Um, but from a subject perspective, it was, um, it was very much my motivation about what do I like and what do I want to. Yeah.
Speaker 2:
And going to Newcastle was again, was it with some of your friends who were doing different things. We're all going to Newcastle. Or was it just you wanted to try
Speaker 1:
Well there was, I have to say, us went across the water. Uh, very few of us stayed here. Um, and I think part of that, That was a certain time in Northern Ireland's history when getting out was was an aspiration for for quite a few people. So quite a few of us went across Uh, although I was the only one to different places in England. Uh, so we didn't all go to the Yeah, a lot of the people in my Northern Ireland to, to study.
Speaker 2:
Yeah. I mean, you talk about economics at a level that that university, like, what is that? What would that look like?
Speaker 1:
Yeah. Well, I suppose I studying economics because I accountancy because I'm going to Um, and that, that never, that And I suppose that somehow or subsequent career progression. I graduated in nineteen ninety four, which was kind of the tail end of the early nineties recession, so there weren't that many graduate jobs in the early mid nineties. And so I ended up I came home, I came home and I got a temporary job in the civil service. And that was really just for And I needed I couldn't sit at job to come along. So I got a temporary job in the And I think that, uh, not finance related or economics related. Uh, I always well, it was It was always seen as a short Um, but what that did was opened Um, there are jobs in the public I'd never thought about working And, and as a result of that, looking for graduate recruits. So I applied for a job in the which would not have been a been working in the civil And I remember to this day. So there are two divisions within the Northern Ireland Audit Office. One is basically financial So just ordering financial departments and public bodies. And then there's a separate value for money division. And they look at and evaluate Spending programs are these have million pounds a year? Has that been well spent and delivered good outcomes in this area? And I remember in the job the, um, the work that they did. And I thought, well, that actually looks quite interesting. And at the job interview I said looks quite interesting. And then I was fortunate enough to be offered a job, and I must have been the only person who they interviewed who said the value for money looked interesting. So I got a job in the value for And so and the first three, four years, then in the audit office, they put the graduate recruits through, you know, the chartered accountancy or the cipfa qualification. So I became a qualified accountant at twenty five and had never had done any financial accounting. Um, but I had the qualification and so I, that in turn, uh, so I did that for six, seven years, uh, working, basically looking at and evaluating government spending programs. It was an interesting role, an government spends money and the, that, but it wasn't. I think I realized that I don't want to continue to do this forever. And, um, and that then took me policy type role within PwC. Uh, with that opportunity became One thing that I would say, I interested in a role in finance is audit is, is a really good Uh, you find out what works, don't work from a, from a importance of governance, the uh, all those types of things recognize the importance of. And I still see it today. People who haven't had that career don't understand to the those sorts of things. So you learn, um, a lot of And even so there's this thing, audit knows and as in the nose whenever somebody presents seem right, the audit nose picks This doesn't smell right. And, and it's a skill that comes from looking at different areas of Spain.
Speaker 2:
Like an investigator, like
Speaker 1:
A little bit, a little bit like where you're questioning what they'll give you a story to And you know, when you're young, then you develop a skepticism. What does this sound right? Really? And, um, so anyway, you develop that, you develop that skill to be able to, I suppose, ascertain when people are these people being genuine. Does this seem reasonable? Um, and those sorts of questions walk of life really, it becomes it's not being negative or can very quickly identify. Right. Well, this is why this won't Yeah. I've been here before. I've seen this movie. It's not worth watching again. And you need to put a, B and C, Uh, and that's a useful skill of, uh, of, of the economy in So that was kind of that, that audit background is something that I would recommend to a lot of people that, that are interested in working in finance more broadly, but it wasn't something. It wasn't somewhere where I It is for some people, and And that then moved me into, uh, on business cases again, project work that was, well, So, uh, you know, uh, ministers, priorities and they want to policies are you going to use to So for example, to pick a one So we have Northern Ireland has very high levels of economic inactivity and every politician wants to reduce economic inactivity. So okay, what policies are you going to put in place to do that. So that then became a very sort is so politicians are very good are, what they want to achieve. I'm interested in, well, how how So how are you going to grow the Um, how are you going to create What policies do you put in And so that that was the start of the focus then in PwC and the work that I was doing in PwC, I was there for PwC for over ten years. Um, and the work I was doing there started to migrate from being policy focused to financially focused. Obviously, I had a financial So I ended up working on more projects that, uh, that were financially orientated, which I watched. It was fine and I didn't enjoy I realized it's actually economic policies is what I enjoy doing. And that's, that's what Yeah. And then the role came up in, in universities in the, in the And so I went for that.
Speaker 2:
And was that was that a unit that was already set up or were you coming in or to pioneer that work?
Speaker 1:
So it was initially. Yeah, it was set up initially by Yeah. And who's now Neil's now the So he's went on to bigger and So the he set it up in the December twenty twelve, January twenty thirteen. And I joined in May twenty So very quickly. So it was still as a as a centre, it was still very much, uh, finding its feet and trying to establish its credibility, which was new for me because I'd always obviously worked for an organisation that was well established. And then it was, um, okay, we've set something up new here and there's just naturally everyone's going, well, it'll be interesting to see if this works. And so people are, you know, but, uh, yeah, You. We. Whenever you're setting well as someone who set up your can't really afford to fail, uh, you know, that's, that's non non tradable. It's and you don't have anything in the bank, uh, to, uh, in the credibility bank. I'm talking about to lean back ground running and being able to the outset then became very
Speaker 2:
Yeah. And so all the work that you've done, I know it's been very broad, but if we think about what is your work said about our people, you know, you talked a bit about economic inactivity. There's the skills barometer. What does your work actually got school today or advising their, career decisions, about where And those sorts of things. Like what are some of the things Yeah, we've actually made a made a difference there with that information that we've generated.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, I think yeah. So policy impact is what we call So yeah. What. So what we've, we've gone away, we've done all this work and we've written these nice reports. So what, what's happened? And I think certainly in terms agenda, which, which we have, major work streams within the Uh, well, I think first of all, why it's important and I'll get to advice for, for, for young people and their parents in a second. But from a political perspective, in my opinion at least, skills is probably the most important economic policy lever that is devolved to Stormont. So if we think about lots of etc., those are decisions that but in terms of having an impact making and political decision skills is very important. And so you reference the skills I mean, one of the things that one of the key findings from our initial skills work, which is ten years old now, uh, was, uh, actually there's, there's a significant, um, well, two things, one at a, particularly at a graduate level, there was an undersupply on Stem related subjects. And that still exists, but for, And then there was this, um, missing middle piece where people in vocational and technical qualifications, very significant undersupply in, in those areas. And, and, and so it was a bit of there was an oversupply of, of There was a very significant Then in that mid-skill level, And then we had reasonable higher level qualifications at But there was probably a subject So we had too many people in not enough in others. And I think what, what came the research, uh, it was very And we have seen a significant over the last ten years. But also we've seen much greater emphasis and awareness on growing apprenticeships and higher level apprenticeships in particular. So I think we're not the only obviously, but I think we played different and new educational So at the I think previously or It's one of the really big issues with our education system was, well, if you're good and you're a success, then you go to university. And if you're not there, if don't go to university. And we saw this very significant higher education universities And that. Well, one, it's not true. And two, it's highly detrimental So it doesn't so it doesn't work It doesn't work for business and lots of young people. And I think that recognizing and lots of different educational all abilities is kind of one of develop over the last ten years.
Speaker 2:
Brilliant. Brilliant. And what are some of the trends that you're seeing as you forecast? You're looking ahead thinking skills that employers need and Like what are some of the big
Speaker 1:
Two key things I would draw out One, this is certainly good news real demographic challenge. So usually when we talk about changing demographics as a society, we think about more older people. And that's true and the implications that's going to have for the health service and for funding, pensions, etc.. So that's that's one part of the demographic story. The part of the demographic about is the smaller number of the education system and into So that's the first kind of key and employers now and for the to employers, their key problem It used to be finding people Now it's finding people. And that's the new normal for You know, there's no big demographic dividend coming down the track. The numbers of young people are years time than it is now. That's a separate issue for the means for schools. Um but that's but I guess what that means is that for, for young people coming through with, uh, ambition and endeavour and effort, there will be job opportunities for you so that the demographic piece is, is good. The second big point, um, that particularly over the last five And by technical skills, I'm talking about the sorts of skills that you get qualifications for, whether they're in it or in finance or in health, whatever, whatever the subject area that you're interested in. Those technical skills are have remain very important. But in addition to that, we're increased emphasis on what we So transversal skills are like So are you a good communicator. Can you work as part of a team? Are you a good problem solver? Do you have initiative? Those sorts of those sorts of level or a degree or an It doesn't it doesn't work like So how does an employer, um, identify people with those skills? Because that is increasingly That is the trend where your. You will need to go. For young people in particular, ages, but for young people in your career, your learning will You will always need to reskill or upskill to, to, to remain relevant in the the modern economy. And so as a, as a result, recognize that because of that, a young person to say, is this and skills to do the job today? Does this person have the right aptitude, mindset, and skills to continue to be able to do the job in five years time and ten years time?
Speaker 2:
We don't know.
Speaker 1:
What that is and we don't know But do they have an aptitude to And I mean, interestingly, so we where so for app developers. Now this is potentially linked to the AI story, but software and app developers, if you look at job adverts for, for those types of roles five years ago, it's very technical skills heavy. Mhm. Um, so programming languages and skills in that if you look now, it's much more teamwork and those broader leadership people skills.
Speaker 2:
You write prompts.
Speaker 1:
In addition. Well, in addition to the need those software skills. Um, but increasingly the stereotype of the software developer sitting, you know, with their hood up and earphones in and typing on their own all day. That's historic. That's an historic stereotype. You're, they're having to work together in teams to solve problems. And so therefore, employers in people who, yes, have the broader transversal skills. So how do you develop those then becomes the, the, the key point, and I keep going back to the importance of combat in your education to combine, uh, classroom education with workplace education. So that involves, uh, the importance of placements and internships during your, your education pathway. And I suppose, uh, in terms of, I have to mention Ulster University at least once in this podcast, it is something that we as an institution are very, very hot on in terms of, uh, delivering and applied education. And for a long time, we have across all courses, um, placed a real emphasis on encouraging students to take a placement year or at least do an internship. And that is where you start to Now then, the question is, well, placement or internship? Because they're increasingly And if, if a young person still I suppose my simple piece of underestimate the importance of You're working in a bar or And sometimes schools, you know, even sometimes discourage that young person to prioritize that impacts their grades. And I get that. And grades are important. But you know, a young person that starts working in a bar or a restaurant at sixteen or seventeen. You know, by the time they're eighteen, nineteen, twenty, they could be they could be managing other more junior people coming in. They're learning about, you know, commercial skills, financial awareness, customer service. Um, those sorts of skills are critical to the modern workplace. Even if you want to then go on environment down the line. A lot of people who have been through their career had those opportunities when they were, So they were, they were
Speaker 2:
Yeah. Those transversal skills, as you call them, they're the connector between serving a pint in a bar and then and dealing with the people in that environment that you then might deal with when you're in a, an audit office, or if you're, you know, it's the same like, you know, in terms of those transversal skills. It's a different context.
Speaker 1:
But yes, if you have a very providing a technical service to to that customer, if you can't and why you're delivering it to a very good job. Yeah. Even you get you could write the best piece of software in the world. You could do something that's But if the customer that you're selling it to doesn't get it or you're providing it to, they don't get it, then you're, you're not going to be as good as the person that can relate to the customer. And we used to always say, you buy products and services, And so if you want to be have to be able to work as part You have to ultimately be able be able to relate to your
Speaker 2:
Yeah, yeah. You mentioned AI already. you know, it wouldn't be any maybe touching on it slightly. You spoke at a at a conference a number of months ago, and you showed the chart of the demographic shift. And I'm trying to paraphrase here, but essentially that what I think you said was that it's almost as if AI isn't going to come quickly enough to solve the problem of, of the declining number of people that are available to work in our society. Firstly, is that is that What I've paraphrased and can
Speaker 1:
Yeah, more or less. I mean, I think that when I look most people ask the question, all our jobs? And my response is that's the The question is, are the enough to do the jobs where we Um, and so I think that that's Now, that's not to say that AI I do think it will have quite a And we need to to learn how to It's, I suppose another, um, I sometimes is AI won't take your So it might as well be you. So it's a skill that we all that we all need to learn and develop. It's a bit like resisting AI is like an individual or a business resisting a T. You're back in the eighties. You're, you're bound to fail. And, and that isn't something to I think that's but that's, you there that we all need to that So I guess I look at AI as any You know, we've we've seen, you know, huge numbers of different industrial revolutions, you know, people moving from agriculture into factories, and then people moving from factories into service industries. Then the advent of of it. And we have so much technology And yet there have never been more people employed than there are today. And firms biggest challenge is So I think that that AI will just be another technological advancement in the same in the same vein.
Speaker 2:
Yeah. I've heard some employers and we did some research around this to say, what do you think AI is going to do to your workforce? And actually, on average, they increase our workforce because are going to be able to use it But I can't help. There's something in the back of It's just thinking, but these developing this AI, and they're capability that humans have had And they're aggregating that just interested to sort of see don't have the ability to, to
Speaker 1:
So I think that the way I look well, we don't know yet the how, But if I take, if I take my role in five years, I might be able to do fifty percent of what I do now. Does that mean that my employer turns around to me and says, Gareth, we only need you to come in two and a half days a week now. Or does it mean that my employer twice as much out of you. My experience thus far, my work out there than we can do. So demand for what we do is much greater than our ability to supply it. So I think it's much more likely will increase rather than we We will be expected to deliver to allow us to to do that. And I recall speaking recently to an HR, I won't name an HR person in, in a, in a software company. And it's a large multinational And they had, uh, there had been before that had indicated that using AI to write thirty percent And so I had asked this individual, does that mean that you are going to need thirty percent less software developers now, or does it mean that you're going to write forty percent more software? And he said, well, as an working that out. But as, as we continue to As economies and as we become do, the demand then will will to what we're able to supply. So I'm, I guess I'm ultimately Um, that's not to say it won't It will. Um, I suppose one, one obvious example, the largest, um, the largest employer, the largest occupation for um, lower qualified males is driving, uh, taxi drivers, van drivers, bus drivers. And in five to ten years time, we're not going to, we're not going to need drivers, taxi drivers anymore. They'll all be self-driving So that that's going to be an And how do we take those people going to to be replaced. And how do we reskill them? Yeah. Now, there are also where the big areas of increased demand for services and where will that change? Going back to the demographic Much more older people needing That's much more difficult to, Um, and so therefore, there will in those areas. Uh, now drivers tends to be a The caring profession tends to be a female dominated occupation. So, um, we, we may need to see those sort of gender stereotypes break down, um, where, um, more men, for example, working in the caring profession. Yeah. Um, so definitely there will be, uh, a, yeah, there will be that, uh, disruption. And it was funny again for I was, I was talking to some sixth formers, uh, recently and in the school, and it just kind of occurred to me they were in lower sixth than when I was in Lower sixth. I learned to drive and I thought my, so my, my grandfather was the first in the family to learn to drive. My grandfather learned to drive My parents obviously learned to My generation learns to drive. My son and his generation will learn to drive, but their children won't. So there would be four will have learned to drive. And after that, we we won't. We won't need to learn to drive. Computers will do that for us. So it's not without its And we need to recognize that. Um, but I think where one door technology where one job or occupations are created.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, yeah. And like my own background is too many digger operators. And again, they may be automated They're not harping back to the in a ditch digging out, you pipe in or something like that. You know, so that advancement has has been not resisted in many ways. It was welcomed. And there will be aspects of But I really love what you said about the just having that mindset, um, demonstrating, you know, problem solving initiative to be able to deal with these circumstances that we find ourselves in. And that's our, that's our hope in all of this. You're an optimist.
Speaker 1:
I'm an optimist. Yes. So I'm going down the, uh, the abundance route. Yes. I, I, I subscribe to that notion, but ultimately, you know, the future is ours to make. So we will produce the future I'm talking as a species here. Yeah. And so therefore, yeah, we're obligated to try to deliver that.
Speaker 2:
But I think it comes back to that that I've made by using AI. It's not that I'm then sitting going, oh, I've got I'm actually What's stuff that I can use my level I have to be able to do is driving me. The impact, the purpose, the trying to deliver a better service for clients or for a community.
Speaker 1:
Yeah. So I think that's, that's So it's a difference between The tasks within your role will be you have to read emails and you have to, you know, write emails and you have to read reports and produce graphics and you spend a lot of time doing those tasks. AI can do those tasks. So then that will allow you to go and meet new customers, meet employers, do so you can do more of what many would say is the more interesting part of your role And, and do less of, of the more mundane administrative side. And you can also lean into AI your decision making. But ultimately, you need to be best out of AI. So people are very concerned about, well, is there any future in me being a software developer because AI can now write software? And the answer to that is yes, will be the people who get the You know, if you have that skill Yeah. And so therefore, it becomes a qualified, well qualified to use going to replace replace me.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, yeah, I think. What do you use the vehicle example that we were um, riffing on there? Um, one of the software MDS and still need an adult to drive. Drive the car. Yep. And that's the that's the But we still need to make sure and, and prompting and guiding Exactly. You know, so last question, and we've heard a bit about the work But if I was to ask you what's
Speaker 1:
I think simply work. It gives you purpose. It's the reason, um, that, that I get up in the morning and, and so therefore, what that means for someone when they're choosing a career is what, what interests you, what motivates you. Some people will be financially motivated to help others. Whatever your motivation is, um, that, that that's what gives you purpose. And, and I suppose, um, for me, it's the enjoyment of, of what I do and the inherent interest that I have in, in the subject area. And, you know, I haven't always have been interested in. And, and when you're in that And you know, we're going to Young people starting out now will probably have to work into their seventies before they before they can retire with demographics. Now they'll probably live to one So it'll be fine. But they you, they will have And so, um, it's imperative is of interest to you and is Um, that's, and then you start holiday then if you enjoy your ultimately and I mentioned little bit away from me yet, but and I've concluded, I've want to retire now. That's not to say I want to continue to do what I'm doing now for, you know, into the distant future. But I don't want to do nothing You know, I can't sit at home. I'm not going to play golf four Um, there has to be a purpose in And I think that I've been fortunate that I've been able to find a job and a role that, that gives me purpose where I think and believe that I'm making a positive difference to the world.
Speaker 2:
I can say from my perspective that you do, um, I've often said that to people that we have economists in Northern Ireland that are incredibly passionate about it. You talked about your love for economics when you were at school, but I can still see that coming through. But actually it's you make it You know, and that's the same that I know of. And it's not a dry subject which And when they're doing their But it's actually something that's it's everything that's around us. Yeah.
Speaker 1:
Well thank you. Thank you for that. And it's, you know, it's clearly everyone, but it's the for you that motivates you. And it may it may not even be an It may be something else. Um, but it's finding that. And if you find that, then
Speaker 2:
Yeah. Thank you for your It's great to catch up. Look forward to seeing you soon.
Speaker 1:
You're very welcome. Thank you.
Speaker 2:
Thanks for tuning in to work. Plus, if today's story gave you fresh perspective or helped you rethink what's possible, leave us a review on your favorite podcast platform or hit like and subscribe. It really does make a big For more stories, resources, and tools to help guide the next generation, visit workplace dot app. Until next time.
